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Why can’t we be friends?

by Vicki Jeffels on March 21, 2010

It’s so funny, how we don’t talk anymore!

Can men and women be friends? I’m beginning to wonder. Recently a couple of my really good males friends have repartnered. Ever since the arrival of the lovely leading ladies in their lives – and truly, bully for them it is excellent news – they have fallen silent. No more discussions about life the universe and everything. No more over-sharing, or just plain sharing as buddies do.What happened to our friendship?

When my generation first met Harry and Sally, we all puzzled over that question: Can Men and Women just be friends?

Harry Burns: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally Albright: Why not?
Harry Burns: What I’m saying is – and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form – is that men and women can’t be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally Albright: That’s not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry Burns: No you don’t.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: No you don’t.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: You only think you do.
Sally Albright: You say I’m having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry Burns: No, what I’m saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: How do you know?
Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally Albright: So, you’re saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry Burns: No. You pretty much want to nail ‘em too.
Sally Albright: What if THEY don’t want to have sex with YOU?
Harry Burns: Doesn’t matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally Albright: Well, I guess we’re not going to be friends then.
Harry Burns: I guess not.
Sally Albright: That’s too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York.

When I first met Harry and Sally I was flatting with the man who would become the Big Mistake (BM – my first husband) and we were just friends. Until of course in an example of life imitating art, and due largely to a very large bottle of port, we were no longer just friends.

Fast track 17 years or so and I was single again and rebuilding my social life. When I first left BM I was hurt to lose so many friends and to discover that single women don’t have an easy place in our coupled-up society.

Whilst my ex was being offered hot dinners and laundry services by women who had previously been ‘my’ friends, I was shunned. Not only by the husbands in these couples but also, perhaps more horribly, by the wives.  In the two years or so that I was single I was invited by only one of my female friends to have a meal at her place with her husband. With her there too, of course…

Party invitations dried up. My son’s best friend’s parents even put a stop to the boys hanging out. It was hard going being a social pariah. What’s worse was I hadn’t done anything wrong. I hadn’t had an affair. I hadn’t cheated and lost significant amounts of the family’s funds, squirreled away in the Caymans or somewhere! Yet those same blokes with whom we’d been friends as a couple, surreptiously made come-on’s behind their wives’ backs.

It was as if becoming suddenly single meant that I was gagging for it and was there for the taking. And blokes came out of the woodwork to do the asking! Behind their wives’ backs! Or did I somehow put out sexual overtones?

It was a weird situation to be in and for a while there I retreated completely and busied myself in making new friendships with a new crowd of recently single women. I enjoyed hanging out with the girls and hitting the town as one of the ‘single ladies’.

All the single ladies, all the single ladies….put your hands up! It was great fun. Like being twenty again, but with more cynical chat-up lines.

The only downside was that I missed male company. I’ve worked in male dominated industries most of my life and I really enjoy having blokes around. I like the way they’re direct and don’t pussyfoot around with being nice to your face only to stab you in the back!

After a while I made some great male friends, one of whom moved from being boyfriend to friend the other was always just a friend. Time went by and of course I met my Englishman and moved over here.  I still kept in touch with my male friends, chatting on Facebook and catching up when they were in town. My bloke didn’t have a problem with this, but I’ve noticed since both male friends have repartnered they’ve not been in contact so much. Do their girlfriends have a problem with me?

Is it the can’t be just friends thing? Are their girlfriends’ suspicious? Or  jealous? Of what?

Is Harry right? Does the potential for sex always underpin relationships between men and women?

FEMALE AND MALE SYMBOLS
© Abdullah Sm | Dreamstime.com

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  • themadhouse

    I believe that you can be just friends. MadDad and I's Bestest friend in the whole wide world is a bloke and I dont fancy him, never have, never would. It is not an issue for me and MAD, but…

    We have been through times where his then girlfirends didnt like him meeting me on my own, it was her issue not mine, she needed to learn to trust and in the end it split them up.

    His wife is wonderful and I adore her too, but utimatlely he is my BF and I am just so pleased that he has found someone ho he loves and has gone on to have 2 children with.

    We see him so little now, as he lives in Henley and we live in Yorkshire, but we talk on the phone all the time.

  • auntiegwen

    My best male friend hooked up with someone and my daily emails/texts/calls became twice weekly then weekly then monthly and now hardly at all. We used to meet up every month or so and now I haven't seen him since November and that last time he spent the whole evening texting her and giggling at her replies. I really miss him.

  • vegemitevix

    Oh that's a happy story! What's your secret? Is it knowing the wife too do you think, so they know you're not a threat?

  • vegemitevix

    I know exactly what you mean auntigwen, I miss my male friends too.

  • tiddlyompompom

    I grew up getting on better with boys than girls, and people could never understand that we were honestly just friends. It's so odd in this day and age, and it was girls who found it the hardest to accept.

    ps I have tagged you in the happiness meme over at mine if you're interested :)

  • michelloui

    Depends on the people. Its not just about insecure wives/girlfriends, its also about the men–perhaps the man was actually secretly hoping the friendship would evolve into something else and when his friendship with someone else evolved then he gradually moved away from the other 'possibilities'. Or perhaps he wouldn't like his partner having a friendship with a man so he decides he cant ask her to do something without setting an example. Perhaps he worries that you won't get along with each other, or perhaps the things they like to do with each other are things you might not enjoy… Of course it may simply be that his new wife/girlfriend is threatened–she is insecure, or has a past history of being with a cheater, or she's not as sexy as you or he calls out your name in bed… ;) Who knows, but there's many possibilities that very likely have very little to do with you!

  • themadhouse

    MadDad played cupid! But we also knew his ex to. Part of the reason it works is that we all respect each other and also trust, which I suppose helps too.

    I also think the fact that his ex couldnt deal with it made him realise how daft it was, of that makes sence.

  • http://www.angelsandurchins.co.uk/blog angelsandurchinsblog

    I've been there too, and on the other side of it as well. I've definitely 'lost' male friends when they find a new love, but have put it down to them having less time, and, of course, partly due to potential jealousy on the part of the new girlfriend. But I'm not sure I blame the new girlfriend; she probably wants to discuss love and life with her new man, and might not appreciate someone else doing the same thing. My husband is still great friends with some female friends, but others I haven't heard about in years. Not consciously my fault, but they might think so?

  • Kirsty

    To be honest Vic I think they are probably just caught up in their new ladies and haven't got as much time for lots of other people in their lives…not just you. Men aren't very good at multitasking remember? :)
    As you know I can relate to everything you have said. At the moment I am 'just friends' with my boyfriend of the last 6 months. Lets see how that goes! lol

  • notesfromlapland

    I've always had more male friends than female but over the years as they have partnered up with 'the one' they have dropped away. A couple that i was really close to have come right out and told me that they aren't allowed to be my friend any more.

    I don't get it. I would never stop my fella from being friends with anyone – he's a big boy and can make his own decisions. And lets face it, if he was going to cheat it wouldn't make a jot of difference whether I told him not to see these particular women, would it?

    I am surprised to hear about the way people treated when you two split up, my love. some people just suck. there is no excuse for that kind of behaviour.

  • Moderndilemma

    Oh its a toughy isn't it? I think it is very hard and only possible when the friends partner's are happy with the friendship. If they are unhappy, chances are the friendship will die. I'm not even going to start thinking of reasons why someone would be unhappy. My brain would burst from all the crap people can come up with.

    MD xx

  • vegemitevix

    Some of those options are quite funny… hope he doesn't call out my name in bed! LOL!

  • vegemitevix

    I wonder too if it's the time thing. Sometimes of course we just move on from friends. Regrettable but true. x

  • vegemitevix

    Gosh has it been six months? I need to ring you. No men are hopeless at multitasking, even juggling more than one thought at a time…x I fxind

  • vegemitevix

    They weren't 'allowed' to be your friend anymore? Weird isn't it. If they were going to cheat I'm sure they'd find the opportunity whatever their new partner said, as you rightly say. I couldn't believe it when I was propositioned by husbands of my friends. Did becoming single mean all of a sudden that all bets were off?

    It is weird being single in a coupled up society, but more weird for women than men, I think.

  • vegemitevix

    It's amazing isn't it! Sometimes you just have to leave friends behind I guess. Sad but true.

  • vegemitevix

    Thank you for commenting and I'll go and have a squiz at yours and happily put it up on my site… cheers xx

  • themoiderer

    I've always been more comfortable being friends with blokes. I find they make far better friends as a general rule. I married my best friend ever which was a bit of a daft thing to do (if you marry your best friend who do you talk to about your hubby?)
    However I did discover that the blokes that I was really good friends with became less so when I was no longer single. At the time I was all innocent and stuff and didn't recognise the cuddly hippo xmas present as a suggestion of something more. It seemed, after chatting to my hubby who has the inside track on how men really think – that a number of what I thought were genuine friendships, were actually something a little more in the blokes eyes.
    I think it's easier to have a male friend if you meet them when you are already hooked up – but then you have partner jealousy to contend with. My hubby has no probs with me hanging out with my female friend for a few hours but if I did exactly the same with a male friend he would have a real problem – even though he trusts me.
    Sorry for the rambling comment

  • vegemitevix

    Thank you for your rambling comment, I so agree with all of what you said. Especially the 'who do you speak to about your husband' bit! That was one of the benefits of having good male friends, they could give me insight on the peculiar male behaviour patterns!! I was really proud of my ability to move one friendship (in particular) from being more than friends to being just good friends, and I'm really hurt this friendship appears to have fallen by the wayside. Of course now that I'm remarried but working from home the chances of making male friends is approximately nil. I miss the blokes. I do. Love my husband to bits, but just miss the other male company…

  • themoiderer

    I have the same problem working from home. I really miss male friends too.

  • notesfromlapland

    The coming on to you from married men was odd – why do they do that?
    Strange, but yes, i think you are right about it being harder for women. i
    don't imagine many men would suddenly stop being friends with their mate
    because he spilt from his wife

  • vegemitevix

    It was really really odd!!!! One guy wouldn't even say hi to me in the street yet every Friday night at a certain time he'd want to come around! He even rang me when I was out on a date because he knew I had a babysitter and wanted to come around to my house. He also told me not to tell his wife, and that he was ringing whilst she was out!!!!

    At one stage I had my best friends' boyfriend make a pass at me in her bathroom!!!

    I had 'nice tits' whispered furtively in my ears so many times I was thinking of changing my name by deed poll …..

    I didn't find it flattering, just awful. Made me feel cheap, sexualised and horrible. I really felt for my friends and how hurt they would have been if they'd known what their husbands/boyfriends were getting up to!

  • notesfromlapland

    *shudder*

  • muddlingalongmummy

    It's a tricky one – I work in a male industry so do have professional friends where (at least from my side) there is no sexual angle. Perhaps it's harder when you're younger and single?

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